A podcast from India

Sarah and Stephen Waddington talk about the key themes from PRAXIS in Pune, India, and key media stories.

• Public relations practice is not currently part of the debate about AI within society. The PRCA says that needs to change and that it intends to lead the way
• Culture, community and creativity was the topic of PRAXIS, one of the largest public relations conferences that takes place in India each year
• The abuse of power and influence within the creative industries continues to silence victims. Better governance is needed and compromise agreements should have little to no role in practice
• Labour has faced criticism for its lack of vision. It’s also under attack for gifts-in-kind. The optics are poor for a government that promised integrity
• We’ve various projects underway focused on technology within practice, alignment with management, and agency growth and resilience. Give us a shout if you’d like our support and advice too.

Presented by Sarah Waddington and Stephen Waddington

For more information visit https://www.wadds.co.uk/
With thanks to our production partners at What Goes On Media

Transcript

Sarah Waddington
Hello and welcome to Better Business Outcomes. I'm Sarah Waddington and I'm here with Stephen Waddington and we're coming to you from Mumbai. So we're actually out on location. We've had the pleasure this week of being at PRAXIS Conference, which is India's largest summit of PR practitioners and they coalesce in a different location every single year with completely different speakers. And this year I had the privilege of keynoting.

It's been fantastic. We arrived in Mumbai, went to Pune, spent a couple of days in Goa and we're back in Mumbai before we head back to the UK. But let's get straight in because we've got such a busy show.

Stephen, one of the headlines I felt from the conference was that PR practitioners are apparently on the sidelines where it comes to AI. Give me your top line thoughts on that.

Stephen Waddington
Yeah, so this is a great story actually that was led by James Hughes, the incoming CEO of the PRCA in the UK. James clearly building position and thinking about the future of PRCA and its role within practice in the UK and also internationally. And he made quite a bold statement about the position of practice as it relates to AI. So we know AI is having an impact on how we do what we do. It's also having an impact on the organisations that we work with for a risk and regulatory point of view.

James made the point that the moment practitioners are sitting on the sidelines and they literally walked, it's quite dramatic, walked to the edge of the stage to make this point. He said we're at the sidelines of this debate that's going on within society and it's largely taking place between technology companies and regulators, governments around the UK, and public relations practitioners both in terms of practice and the organisations they represent from a risk perspective are completely on the sidelines and not part of the debate.

James's vision was he wanted to pull public relations practitioners into this discussion so that we had a role around issues, and there's some really important societal and governance issues related to things like copyright, the overreach of technology. Generally within practice, we have a techno-optimistic perspective of AI. And that's not necessarily a good thing, and I've written lots about this. And frankly, I welcome James' perspective. I think he's completely right.

Sarah Waddington
Sorry, I'm just laughing because I heard someone meander past to a lift, but that's what comes from being on location.

Stephen Waddington
There's a trolley came past. It's your room service on its way, Sarah. Gin and tonic for Mrs Waddington!
 
 Sarah Waddington
<LAUGH> Anyway, I hope people will forgive us. Anyway, it was a great conference. I thought there was some brilliant headlines. I was really interested in the topic that I was asked to look at for my keynote. And that was about how PR professionals can leverage our skills to foster better community engagement, particularly at a time of disinformation and social divide. And I found it quite fascinating that when I was researching my presentation that there's a lot of PR agencies telling us how to do it, but not many organisations using their skills to get into communities and try and broker understanding and unity.

There were three examples that I found because I was looking for really global examples. And the first one I really loved and it was Heineken's Worlds Apart campaign. And they, of course, promoting beer, but they got people around the table, polar opposites, to seek to understand each other's perspectives. And this was great because this is purely about understanding, not about unity, but just about starting to see things through a different lens.

And then there was another one that I really enjoyed, which was from UN Women and Unilever and that's called the Unstereotype Alliance and its campaign was Say Nothing Change Nothing and this is about how we can combat stereotypes in a measured and safe way so move from being as they call it a ‘bystander’ to an ‘upstander’ and I really particularly like this because it really made it put me in mind of what's going on in the UK at the moment where immigrants are being used by certain parties - think about reform and at times the Tories - as a common enemy, which they're not. And a lot of immigrants do a lot of good for Great Britain. And I just love the fact that actually it gives you tools and a mechanism for challenging people if they talk about people that in a way that you know is not correct. And I just thought that was brilliant.

And the third one, it's not really a campaign, but I did think it was a brilliant use of celebrity and a great example of what brands and organisations could do if they were brave enough. And that was Taylor Swift and her response to Trump having used AI to suggest, to pretend that she was going to be voting for him in the upcoming US election. And she put out a statement, which I thought was brilliant, and signed ‘the childless cat lady’. And she said, that the best way to combat disinformation is with facts and said in turn that everybody should do their own research effectively, but that she would be voting for Kamala Harris. But I just thought it was a very bold statement. It's a true statement and it was a great example. So really quite fascinating.

I had some other favourites, but what else did you take away? Was there anything else top level that you really enjoyed?

Stephen Waddington
 These are all brilliant examples, of communities and the conference emphasized the opportunity for public relations practice through culture and creativity to help develop communities on behalf of the organisations it serves.
 
 So I was particularly taken with another community, this time an internal one. We have Bruno Torn, the Head of Corporate Communications from Sanofi, talk the internal community that his organisation had built around the 2024 Olympics.
 
 So they had volunteers from 54 countries around the world supporting the Paris Olympics effort. So another great example, as you've described, of community there.
 
 There was also examples of how individuals had used communities from an activist perspective. You talked about socially mobile, we heard about the Asian communication network, we heard about people like us, all activist efforts that are building communities of practitioners around them to affect change.
 
 Then also from EECO, the International Communication Consultant Organisation, about its work aligned with the EU United Nations on helping mobilise climate action and the role of practice within that all really important efforts and all emphasising this - what we've known for 20 years or more the importance of community as a public relations strategy.
 
 Sarah Waddington
Sonofi really interesting because the results were the outcomes were incredible. I'm saying significant, incredible. I almost made a new word up there. Do you know what was quite interesting about it is the fact that that industry is so heavily regulated so that actually the internal comms and the engagement within the community led their exposure. And it's really very impressive. We all know that even bringing small groups of people together can be like herding cats. And the number of people in the number of different countries, both internal to the organisation and external, it was something to learn about. I was hugely impressed and fascinated by the learnings from that speech.

The other one that I really enjoyed was Brenda Darden Wilkerson, who's the president of aneedtobe.org. She was just brilliant in talking about why community matters and her top line was that it gives strength in unity, resilience in adversity, and it fosters inclusivity. And I just thought that was really, really interesting because she talked about how we need to foster open communication, encourage participation, and celebrate diversity more. And to do that, we need to make sure that people feel seen and valued. The other thing that I really enjoyed, and this is almost a direct quote, she said that ‘community creates a collective force and that together we can achieve feats that transcend individual capabilities’ and there's nothing truer.

She then went on to talk about finding purpose and we've talked about this a lot. I've been asked about it in terms of my CBE, our work in founding Socially Mobile and she talked about how you find that and she pushed people to find something that would make them  fearful, because actually that would be the way for them to grow. And she said that you have to be prepared to stand up for something and to sacrifice something. So, for example, for us, that resonated very true. We gave up weekends. In the very beginning, we sacrificed time with the kids and, you know, things, you know, that we could have invested in the business very differently if we'd use the money that we use it to put into Socially Mobile. I just thought she's absolutely right. comes, you know, there is it comes with a huge investment, right?

And she also said it's an iterative process, isn't it? Finding purpose is a journey, not a destination because your purpose may change. And I just thought she was hugely insightful and I saw the room really respond to her. Just fantastic. I really, really loved it.

Stephen Waddington
 Yeah, that reflectivity is an important part of the role of a public relations practitioner actually and it's under discussed.
 
 Sarah Waddington
We've got so much to get through in this show and we spent quite a lot of time on PRAXIS because it's so fantastic. But let's look at some of the news headlines and they're being dominated at the moment by news around Mohammed Al Fayed, P Diddy, J Blades, Strictly Come Dancing. Now, our friend and colleague Louise Watson sign posted me on LinkedIn to The Media Show Podcast which talks about abuse in the creative industries and whether celebrities are just treated too differently. They're untouchable. Such an interesting subject, right?

Stephen Waddington
 Absolutely fascinating. Here we are, seven, eight years after the Harvey Weinstein scandal first erupted into the MeToo movement. But these issues, and you've cited four there, continue to come out and we're shocked and amazed by every single one.
 
The question is, where does it stop and why does it continue to happen? We talked at length about this during the week. Clearly it's abuse of power, it's abuse of influence.
 
 You're very critical of non -disclosure and compromise agreements, right? I think there's a lot of fault lies in those. I think there's also a lot of fault lies within the publicity element of public relations practice and its role in protecting the organisation, in this case, Harrods, the BBC, and so forth. Practitioners really need to think about their part in these issues.
 
 Sarah Waddington
100%, and I think this comes down to good governance in the first instance. I think it's about making sure that you've got a good whistle-blowing process in place, that people have a safe space to talk, that they feel like they can share without fear of repercussion. I think the other thing is, you mentioned them, you touched on them just there. I have a real hatred of compromise agreements! They're used as silencing tools. They're very difficult to get a handle on in terms of people, they're used to stop people talking. So nobody has an idea of the scale of an issue.

So I kind of feel like they're also an abuse of power to an extent. And if you're in HR in an organisation, if you're seeing a lot of those used and deployed, you should be asking yourself, what is the culture of this organisation? What is it covering up? And is it living to the values that are published? Because I can guarantee that the values are always going to be different to whatever's actually going on.

So really big issues. And we're seeing that not just in celebrity circles, because obviously I named a few there, but, I saw it as well this week. There's been the Labour Conference. Wes Streeting has laid out very clearly the issues that he sees with the NHS and the challenges it's got and the investment decisions that they're going to have to make. And it's really interesting because there's been some unnamed senior NHS sources, senior NHS sources who have come out and said that what he's saying is inappropriate is undermining the NHS, which will undermine trust.

And I have a big problem with that because I think in the NHS, as much as an ardent believer in it and its services as I am, it also has big problems because it's another one where there are many, many instances where management focuses on reputation management and suppression of stories rather than dealing with the issue at hand. We have got to get a handle on these cultural issues and also believe victims when they come forward and make that a much easier process in a very traumatic situation. This is rife, isn't going away. It's concerning that these stories still come out and are still as shocking as ever. And it'll be interesting to see what comes out with the Strictly report, which is due out imminently, I believe.

Stephen Waddington
 Yeah, whether the BBC actually discloses that and publishes it is another question. Again - the role of public relations there in helping that bring to the fore. I'm going to tie this back to community, because you made a really important point there about compromise agreements and non -disclosure, because in gagging the victims, you prevent the community from understanding the issues at play here and the strength gathering in a case. again, return to the Harrods story after the Sunday Times investigation, there are many, many victims coming forward, each of whom seems to have been suppressed in part by the public relations function at the time at Harrods. And sorry, that's inexcusable.

 Sarah Waddington
Moving on, two stories to do with UK media now. First one, Philip Schofield, he's back. So it kind of ties to this abuse of power in terms of untouchable celebrities. Now, Philip Schofield obviously left TV after he was found out, found out because he had what he calls an inappropriate affair with a much younger member of his team while he was still broadcasting every morning.

He now is apparently coming back in the form of a desert island format. He's going to go and spend or has spent time away on his own with his deepest, darkest thoughts. And that's going to be put out in a series. And I have a big issue with this because this is a tried and tested format for rehabilitating people. And we've seen this with Nigel Farage. He went on, I'm a celebrity, get me out of here and look where we are right now. I'm just kind of like, where does it stop in terms of where do we say the line is crossed? These people have made a mistake, shall we say, or they have views contrary to what we think is appropriate. We don't want fascists on a screen. I don't want fascists on the TV, sorry. Personal view. Don't think it's too controversial. When do we say we shouldn't be giving them these platforms? I'm really deeply uncomfortable with this.

Stephen Waddington
I'm also uncomfortable with the cynical arc of retribution. You're right, you called it a formula, you're absolutely right! A shamed celebrity disappears from our screens for a period of time. They have a period of silence and then they come back through a vehicle such as, in this case, a castaway format and no doubt we're gonna see the challenges Phillip Schofield faces along the way...

Sarah Waddington
But it normalises what's happened, right? It doesn't make it alright!

Stephen Waddington
Completely normalizes it. It doesn't make it acceptable and it rehabilitates - ultimately the goal is rehabilitation on the part of the celebrity.

Sarah Waddington
So there's that about the UK media and then there's this also on-running saga now with Labour and donations. I think people will know if they follow us that we're fairly lefty leaning, that we were hoping for a Labour government, we were ready for the change, we were promised integrity, we were promised a different way of running than being in power and it would be a stark change to what we'd had before. So, you know, to be in the week before Labour Conference and during the week of Labour Conference, you know, faced with a barrage of headlines which are all about clothing donations, apartment donations, holiday donations, suits and clothing donations, spectacle donations, I just, it's a little bit disheartening and I just want to draw attention to a great article that Maja Pawinska Sims
from PRovoke Media wrote. She wrote about joy as a strategy. And it really stuck with me because one of the things I always thought about the Labour campaign was it was missing that. They've told us very clearly, and some people are dubbing it austerity mark 2, not the Labour camp, of course, but they've said very clearly, we're in a very challenging situation. Things are going to get worse before they get better. And there doesn't seem to be much revision. So to have that heavy duty ‘things aren't great’. You remember your old New Labour where was ‘things can only get better’. We've got ‘things aren't going to get better yet and now we've got donations like cash for spectacles on top of it’. Where do you sit with that?

Stephen Waddington
I'm really challenged by the lack of vision. You remember back to 1997 when Blair came to power. actually, well, it was a similar thing. It seemed to be a reset after the major government. It seemed to be a fresh energy. There's a lot of new talent came into parliament.

Sarah Waddington
It felt good, didn't it?

Stephen Waddington
Well, it was a similar thing. It seemed to be a reset after the Major government. It seemed to be a fresh energy. There's a lot of new talent came into parliament. There was a real optimism and sense of purpose of the country. Day one, day two, Gordon Brown changed monetary policy. And we've not got it here. Instead, the media landscape's completely changed and they were never going to get an easy ride from the right-wing media.

Sarah Waddington
But looking at him, Sir Keir Starmer over the dispatch box and looking at his and thinking about his glasses rather than what he's saying, I mean, come on, let's stick to policies. And I get there's a right-wing media. I get there's a right -wing media with an agenda, but I'm struggling with this, I have to say optically!

Stephen Waddington
The optics, as we've said, are very poor. But we've got Oasis tickets, so it's not all bad. We paid for them!

Sarah Waddington
We had a very stressful morning sitting there, both of us in different locations, just to make sure we had Wi -Fi connection trying to get them. So that's something! And let's just hope that we don't split up again before next year. We didn't get the Tay-Tay tickets, we got the Oasis ones, so all is not lost.

Fantastic. Tell me, we're heading back to the UK. What have you got on next week?

Stephen Waddington
So three things, get back into my PhD and I'm actually going to start doing some field work after three years of study. It's a significant moment.

Sarah Waddington
Get your wellies on, put your jacket on, out you go.

 Stephen Waddington
 Literally! I'm quite energised about that because finally, you know, get to actually do something and make a contribution of my own to knowledge, hopefully. Second thing, we've got to get the data back from the field. We’ve been working with the NHS Confederation looking at the role of eye within communication practice within the NHS. We're getting data back from a field survey to start to understand how it's been used, where it's been used, some of the governance issues.
 
 Sarah Waddington
So you're doing quite a lot of that work in terms of the use of AI and what does best practice look like…

Stephen Waddington
Yeah, I was going to say,the third thing is a study we've done with Newsweb, the third study of its kind, which I genuinely think breaks new ground and is a really interesting piece of work because we've gone out to corporate communications leaders as we've done with previous studies with Newsweb and looked at how the function is modernising around digital and there's, I'm not going to blow this story but there's some really interesting insight coming out about that will be published in the second or third week of October so watch out.

Sarah Waddington
And I shouldn't say, but I've had a little sneak peek because I did a little bit of an edit in terms of just reading through and checking for his punctuation, which sometimes can go a bit awry and it has actually got some really great insight in there in terms of what's required in terms of a reset of corporate comms departments. And there's some really great best practice in there. So that's well worth looking out for.

I've got today a strategy day with Manifest Group, which is going to be fascinating because they're global operations who will be looking at what's happening with each studio in each territory. And yeah, lots and lots going on. So if you need help with AI, alignment with management, agency growth and resilience, you know where we are! And we will look forward to coming back in the next couple of weeks where we're going to record again in terms of all the latest topics in terms of media management, technology and leadership. And we're also going to be introducing a couple of guests who will be talking about their leadership journeys too. So we'll look forward to it and we'll see you then.

Stephen Waddington
Thanks, Sarah.

Sarah Waddington
Thanks, bye bye.