Sarah Dewar: Leadership through humility and authenticity

On this episode of Better Business Outcomes, Sarah Waddington from Wadds Inc. welcomes Sarah Dewar from Mental Health Concern. 

They discuss:

·      How great leaders have humility and authenticity and see people holistically, not just as employees

·      Social network theory and the importance of relationships in the workplace

·      Rounded wellbeing strategies

·      What leaders should be thinking about in terms of their health and their employees’ wellbeing during this cost-of-living crisis

·      The services available for people needing help and what companies can do to make a return to work easier 

·      How employee groups can help design the workplace to suit neurodiverse talent 

·      How valuing your people leads to Better Business Outcomes

Presented by Sarah Waddington and Stephen Waddington

For more information visit https://www.wadds.co.uk/
With thanks to our production partners at What Goes On Media

Transcript

Sarah Waddington:

Welcome to Better Business Outcomes, where we discuss how good communication can transform and grow organisations with a series of global leaders who've set the standard for what great looks like. 

I'm Sarah Waddington from Wadds Inc, and I've been working in public relations and a leadership role for more than 20 years. In this podcast, you'll hear from leaders and senior communicators about their leadership journey and how they create social impact. You'll also understand the areas you should be focusing on to build personal and organisational resilience. Find out how product relations can unlock value for your business and enjoy a great listen along the way. 

Well, today I have the pleasure of welcoming Sarah Dewar from Mental Health Concern. Thanks for joining the show, Sarah.

Sarah Dewar:

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Sarah Waddington:

Sarah, let's start with explaining a little bit about Mental Health Concern. You provide a wide range of specialists, mental health services. Can you tell us a little bit more about that?

Sarah Dewar:

Yeah, absolutely. So we are a charity. We were founded in the North East and we also have a not-for-profit arm of the organisation as well. So we provide lots of different mental health services across the uk. We provide talking therapies in, in different geographical pockets across the country, and a lot of mental health services in the northeast from dementia care services to community and wellbeing services, crisis services, and also supported housing. And we've been around since 1986.

Sarah Waddington:

Wow. So wide range of services, very much in the heart of community. 

Sarah Dewar:

Yes, Absolutely.

Sarah Waddington:

Your chief people officer and a member of the leadership team. Where did your own leadership journey start?

Sarah Dewar:

So, I'm an HR professional and I studied for my Masters in human resource management and my CIPD qualification as well. Spent a number of years working in not-for-profit in an HR arena, and then moved into a leadership role, which has gradually broadened over time. So I've worked in not-for-profit, I've worked in private healthcare and now working in the charity sector. And the last couple of roles I've had have been senior leadership positions leading people and culture and also lots of other things more broadly across the organisation. I think I've been very lucky in the fact that I've been able to broaden my role beyond HR to a wider leadership role to really make a difference to organisations.

Sarah Waddington:

How have your own personal experiences impacted the way that you lead today? And what qualities would you say make a good leader?

Sarah Dewar:

I think for me to be a great leader, it's about humility and authenticity. I have a family. I have two children. I have a busy life and responsibilities outside of work. And I think what makes a great leader is somebody who absolutely recognizes that and who can absolutely support people in balancing their home and their work life,

Sarah Waddington:

Sees people holistically and put that into practice. Yeah!

Sarah Dewar:

I mean that beyond flexible working hours because, you know, that's kind of the easy part, but actually seeing the whole person and seeing that the, the life and the challenges they potentially have outside of work as well and, and actually how you can, how you can see that person as a whole. 

I think I'm a big fan of kind of non-hierarchical leadership. I think, you know, the days of kind of stuffy boardroom sessions and non-visible leaders sat in offices and things are absolutely gone

Sarah Waddington:

Servant master type approach.

Sarah Dewar

Yeah, absolutely. You know, make an appointment and come and see me.

Sarah Waddington:

Very old kind of war-time mentality, isn't it?

Sarah Dewar:

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I don't operate in that way at all. I'm a really informal leader. I don't believe in hierarchy. I understand why it's there and I understand why structures are there. Absolutely. But actually I want to be approachable. I want to talk to people and in our organization I really want to get to genuinely get to know everyone and understand about their challenges in the workplace and outside of the workplace. Because I think that is really, really important that I listen and understand.

Sarah Waddington:

That's really interesting that, so I'm a non-exec director in the wider business marketplace, but also through Wadds Inc work with creative agencies. And of course we've got this cost of living crisis at the moment and post pandemic, not everybody can immediately put wages up or give one off bonuses. And one of the things that we've talked at length about is actually getting to know your teams. Because a lot of agencies are SME size, so they, they, it's a manageable thing to do - to actually talk and understand what people's personal challenges are and trying to find a solution that shows that you care that works for that person, but that you can kind of implement. So it's fair across the team. And I think that having that direct relationship is so important.

Sarah Dewar:

Yeah, absolutely. 

We've been rolling out a new leadership program in the organization and we are really working and focusing with our leaders on coaching conversations, development conversations, wellbeing conversations. So yes, it's absolutely about managing performance, but actually there's far, far more to it than that. And getting to know that whole person has been really, really important. There's lots of changes that actually a colleague and a an employer can work on together that really will impact their wellbeing. That that might never come out if there isn't a quality conversation.

Sarah Waddington:

100%. And it's back to the most simplest of things - Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, you know, people come to work yes, predominantly a lot of the time because they need to earn a wage, but actually there are a lot of social elements that also come into play there. And also fulfillment of personal potential. So it's crucial to, to understand if you want to unlock the potential of your talent, which is, let's face it, your biggest competitive advantage. 

Let's delve into that a little bit further then. Social Network Theory recognises the importance of relationships within the workplace. How can organizations create opportunities for employee development and for recognition and empowerment?

Sarah Dewar:

I think understanding people's skills and where they see themselves is really important. So that conversation with, with leader and colleague actually about what is somebody doing, what would they like to do in the future, is really important. And that's not necessarily about getting the next promotion. Absolutely not. That might be about actually a skill set that they have that maybe we didn't realise we can untap that through getting them involved in a project or an extra piece of work. You know, we are quite an innovative healthcare organization. Sure. So we like to provide a lot of opportunity for people to work on, you know, work on the rollout of new digital tools or whatever it might be to use their skills in a different way. Healthcare is really, really competitive from a workforce perspective. And allowing people to innovate and think more freely is what we want to achieve because we know that leads to huge increases in colleague satisfaction, but also in wellbeing.

Sarah Waddington:

So I guess with that there's also, you know, you really have to engender a workplace where there's trust because you're actually delegating decision making responsibility further down the line, aren't you? If you're saying ‘we trust you to be innovative, you, if you understand our vision, we know that you'll make the right choices’. That that's quite a big thing within organisations that doesn't always exist.

Sarah Dewar:

It is, Yeah. The link between autonomy and happiness and wellbeing is huge. And I really, really believe in that. But that's not easy, you know, it's really, we are working through a culture of managers learning to release control in a really healthy way and actually empower the teams and to, and to really have a culture where if something doesn't go right all of the time, that's absolutely OK. But a culture where people can speak about it,

Sarah Waddington:

Fail fast and fail forward. I mean, no one's ever gonna get it right all the time. And as long as there's no culture of a blame, that's quite freeing.

Sarah Dewar:

Absolutely!

Sarah Waddington:

Liberating.

Sarah Dewar:

Yeah. And I, and you know, yeah, I've been there, I've seen it, you know, we all have with a blame culture it's difficult and stifles innovation. It, it really does affect wellbeing and it really affects your employee attrition figures and things like that. So actually that autonomy and that personalization of, of your job is really, really important. But that is not something that can be achieved overnight. And I think that's about learning and working with leaders to give them skills and confidence to do that.

Sarah Waddington:

Wholy agree. And it's big cultural shift. 

 Let's push into wellbeing then. Yes. Really stressful time with the cost of living crisis. You know, we've got a lot of political and economic turbulence. It's tough, it's tough from an individual perspective, but also for management teams who are trying to do the best by navigating this turbulence and do the best by their teams. What should leaders be thinking about right now in terms of their health and their employees' wellbeing?

Sarah Dewar:

I think as an organisation, it's really important to have a rounded wellbeing strategy. So actually to look at the different pillars of wellbeing equally. You know, physical wellbeing is something that absolutely should be, should be focused on and promoted. The importance of the physical workspace, I think just can't be, can't be underestimated. But the minute, obviously we've been talking a lot about financial wellbeing and looking at things that we can do for our colleagues to support them. We are a charity and not-for-profit. We are able to put our surplus into delivery of our services and, and, and into doing the right thing with our funds. And we've been able to award a couple of pay awards in the time that I've worked in the organization and also moved to be a real living wage employer, which was a really, really important step for us. And we've also been putting other things in place to support people's financial wellbeing. So providing, cards for people, people who incur regular expenses out and about in the community, running community events and things. Actually we're giving them cards to pay for those without relying on a, a lag time for expenses.

Sarah Waddington:

Incredible. But I think people underestimate that, you know - expenses. Yeah. It's a, particularly if you already come from a low socio economic background or if you aren't financially wealthy for want of a better expression, can be very, very challenging to actually just do things that other people take for granted. So that that will be a huge, a huge change for people.

Sarah Dewar:

People. Yeah. What what we've been doing a lot of is listening to the challenges of our colleagues with health and wellbeing and financial wellbeing in particular. We’ve set up a confidential service internally for people to talk it through – any individual financial wellbeing concerns. And the things that we're putting in place are coming on the back of feedback. So actually on a day-to-day basis, what is causing a challenge for our colleagues and, you know, regular expenses, even not huge amounts really were and we're also putting in place a facility for people to be able to access earned salary earlier because the traditional paying once a month doesn't work anymore with people's lifestyles and weekly commitments and things like that and some financial coaching and things. So, absolute focus on financial wellbeing. And I think from a manager's perspective, it's about, again, it's about confidence to have the conversation.

Sarah Waddington:

Yeah. 100%.

Sarah Dewar:

And confidence to say, ‘OK something's not working here’ and speaking to me or speaking to somebody else in the organisation to see how creative we can be with a solution.

Sarah Waddington:

‘Creative’ is the word I was just about to say actually. Because I think what's interesting about this is it's where the conversations lead you and actually being able to and brave enough to step outside of what society does elsewhere, what the business world does, and actually looking at what's appropriate on this occasion and evolving your own systems and processes appropriately. I think there's loads of interesting takeaways for our listeners there. 

Now unfortunately we are seeing people get into a crisis situation. And I think it's really important to look at what services are out there for people needing help. Could you shine some light on that?

Sarah Dewar:

Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, certainly I joined Mental Health Concern about 18 months ago and I, I don't think I really understood actually the full breadth of mental health services that are available in this country to people. You know, we, we offer talking therapies, people can self refer or refer through a GP and depending on where you live geographically, you will be, you know, you will be seen through talking therapy. But actually in the community there are so many services that can be offered for free that actually bring people together to talk to de-stigmatize and to open up. 

So I went out to one of our services about two weeks ago. It's called the Happiness and Meditation Club. It's a club that's running the North East for women who have been openly struggling with their mental health to come together, focus on themselves and talk about it. And actually the stories that I heard there about the difference of, you know, community and collaboration that can make to people is absolutely huge. So, so much runs in the community and I would really encourage people to look at the services in their local area that bring them together to talk.

Sarah Waddington:

Amazing. And I think we underestimate that. You know, if you remember back in the day, you know, I, I look to my grandparents' time and there was always a community around where they lived. And as times gone by, we've kind of lost that. People don't necessarily know their neighbours, let alone have big contacts where they live. It tends to be little bit more contractual in terms of where you're based and going into work and coming out. And of course now people don't even necessarily go into work post pandemic. So having that access and being around other people who can help is so crucial.

Sarah Dewar:

Yeah. And I think for employers as well, it's about bringing people together. Because you're absolutely right, people aren't in offices in the same way all the time anymore. And absolutely nor should they be. There's so many advantages to agile working from a wellbeing and, and lots of different perspectives. But actually we're working really hard to create opportunities for teams to come together and collaborate and also for teams to get to come together and just have some fun. I think that has been really lacking, hasn't it?

Sarah Waddington:

People forget that, you know, I talk about fun and flow a lot, particularly with agency owners, particularly parents who feel overwhelmed. And this has always come back down to ‘you need to make space for fun and, and change the flow of your day’. And there's no guilt to be attached to that in terms of it's absolutely crucial for your own mental health. 

Sarah, that's really interesting. What if someone does have a crisis what can employers do to make the return to work easier for or concerned?

Sarah Dewar:

I think what's really important in that question is what works for that individual? Because everybody, and everybody is very, very different. And I think, you know, there will be some people who will come back to work who will want to be really, really open about what they've been through, to share their story with teams, wider teams for, for learning, and there'll be some people who really aren't comfortable with that at all. So I think the key in all of this is understanding what works for the, the individual.

Sarah Waddington:

A personalised response.

Sarah Dewar:

Yeah. But my view is absolutely honesty and, you know, don't hide these things. Actually, if somebody in the team has been through a difficult period of time and they're comfortable to share that, share that, talk to the team and talk to the team about how they can all support this person, but actually what this person has been through could potentially help others and what could be learned from that.

Sarah Waddington:

And I think sometimes if it is a tricky subject, if there, if there is agreement that you can be open about it, I think then you can then have really useful conversations about what is an appropriate way to address with that person. And I think that can be really important for people because some people just don't know how to deal with it, so will ignore it. And that can be incredibly hurtful or are frightened of saying the wrong thing. So often that pre-prep is useful for everyone, especially in that very early stage when they're first back and it just feels a bit uncomfortable for everybody because it's kind of like an elephant in the room.

Sarah Dewar:

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And then of course there's loads of practical things which, which can be done on, phased returns and all that sort of stuff as well that, that, that people do that really support that gradual transition back into work or maybe doing a job slightly differently for a period, whatever that might be as well. But I think talking about it for me is key.

Sarah Waddington:

Brilliant. 

Let's change tack very slightly and, and talk about neurodiversity. It's increasingly moving up the agenda for management teams as it should. How important is workplace design if companies, if company bosses are to unlock people's potential?

Sarah Dewar:

So yes, neurodiversity is something we've been talking a lot about in our organisation and also something I've been talking a lot about with my network of people leaders as well. We have a neurodiversity network group within the organisation, which was self-created by a number of really passionate people across the organisation actually. And I stepped forward to be the exec sponsor of that group because I really wanted to show the senior buy-in for our diversity network groups, this being one of them. And they're really challenging our thinking, you know, the group are really challenging our thinking. So Mental Health Concern - we've just moved into a new head office. We involved our neurodiversity group in the design of that office around quiet spaces, around lighting, around the fact that actually not everybody wants to work in the same way in a loud, bright, open plan office. And we've made some changes and made some kind of zoned areas and things in line with that feedback. 

We've also done a spotlight on dyslexia last week actually. And our CEO had a, a recorded conversation with some people with dyslexia in the organisation to share their journey. And actually they're really challenging us on how we, how we do our internal and external communications, the tools we use, how we tend to kind of rely on email communication for everything and actually how we can flex that to meet people's needs. So I think it, it absolutely in, in relation to the physical workspace, there's a lot that can be done, but also in the way we communicate with each other, I think neurodiversity groups and contacts can be really, really valuable for that. It's been, it's definitely been eyeopening for me and I think there's a lot more we we can do and learn.

Sarah Waddington:

It's wonderful just to hear of an organization that's actively engaging with its talent and not just listening but implementing new ways of, of working on the back of that. 

Which kind of brings me onto my next penultimate question. Obviously large organisation, multiple sites, wide variety of partners. How important is purpose and vision in building your company culture? I mean, clearly your, your team feel empowered, you must work really hard on that? 

Sarah Dewar:

It is the most important thing. So as an organisation I was, I was talking to with the exec team yesterday actually saying, ‘this is the first organization I think I've ever worked in that has a truly clear purpose and vision and strategy’. And that is an amazing place to be. And actually we developed that last year our shaping our future strategy and it hasn't just sat on a shelf, it really hasn't. It's alive, it's real. And our colleagues understand it. You know, we deliberately kept our purpose and our strategy, simple in all the right ways so people could really understand what they were doing and how that linked to our strategy and where we were going. And I think that for me is the absolute fundamental for employee engagement, buy in recognition, wellbeing, ‘Why am I here’? ‘What, what makes this organisation so special’? ‘Okay, I can see that and understand that and I want to be part of that’. Its just been absolutely great. You know, it hasn't been, hasn't been easy by any stretch of the imagination. But when you're delivering lots of different services in lots of different geographical pockets and you're a national organisation with lots of people working from different physical sites, working from home and things, having something that we can all come together to focus on, I think has been really, really important.

Sarah Waddington:

Ah, that's wonderfully upbeat. Which does bring me to my last question. And it's been wonderful talking to you today. What's the one thing you believe, Sarah, leads to better business outcomes?

Sarah Dewar:

Value your people. Which sounds… I dunno if that sounds too simple, but really, really engage with your workforce, appreciate them and utilise their talents because that is absolutely, for me, absolutely invaluable and links to everything else. You know, commercial outcomes, financial, all of that. If you value and engage your people and give them a reason to work for you and, and a vision and a journey ahead for them, I think that's what makes brilliant business outcomes to be honest.

Sarah Waddington:

Oh, well, that's a hugely inspirational way to finish today's Better Business Outcomes podcast. 

Huge thanks Sarah for giving up your time. And for sharing your insights into the important work that's carried out by mental health concern. It's been lovely to hear more and understand the innovation that goes on within the organization too. 

Well, you can find out more about Sarah by clicking on the links in the show notes. And if you'd like to read a transcription of today's interview, just head to wadds.co.uk/podcast. 

Well coming up later in the series, you'll be hearing from Tom Levitt, the author of The Company Citizen and whose company Interest Company Fair for you recently partnered with Iceland to offer £75 interest free personal loans to help people struggling to pay their food bills. Another inspirational story. 

Don't forget to follow Better Business Outcomes for free, wherever you usually find your podcast. And if you enjoy what you hear, please also leave us a review. 

See you next time.