On this episode of Better Business Outcomes, Sarah Waddington CBE from Wadds Inc. welcomes Tokunbo Ajasa-Oluwa, CEO of national social mobility charity, Career Ready.
They discuss:
· Vulnerability as a trait of good leaders and the qualities embodied by the late Dame Anita Roddick DBE
· Career Ready’s overarching mission in preparing young people facing barriers to education and employment for the world of work
· The structural issues currently preventing a pipeline of diverse talent from school leaver age upwards in UK industry
· Tokunbo’s time as a Cabinet Officer appointed Social Enterprise Ambassador from 2007-2010, advising Downing Street on diversity, youth development and social entrepreneurship
· How creating a culture and a space where people can be their authentic space leads to Better Business Outcomes
Presented by Sarah Waddington and Stephen Waddington
For more information visit https://www.wadds.co.uk/
With thanks to our production partners at What Goes On Media
On this episode of Better Business Outcomes, Sarah Waddington CBE from Wadds Inc. welcomes Tokunbo Ajasa-Oluwa, CEO of national social mobility charity, Career Ready.
They discuss:
· Vulnerability as a trait of good leaders and the qualities embodied by the late Dame Anita Roddick DBE
· Career Ready’s overarching mission in preparing young people facing barriers to education and employment for the world of work
· The structural issues currently preventing a pipeline of diverse talent from school leaver age upwards in UK industry
· Tokunbo’s time as a Cabinet Officer appointed Social Enterprise Ambassador from 2007-2010, advising Downing Street on diversity, youth development and social entrepreneurship
· How creating a culture and a space where people can be their authentic space leads to Better Business Outcomes
Presented by Sarah Waddington and Stephen Waddington
For more information visit https://www.wadds.co.uk/
With thanks to our production partners at What Goes On Media
Sarah Waddington:
Welcome to Better Business Outcomes, where we discuss how good communication can transform and grow organisations with a series of global leaders who set the standard for what great looks like.
I'm Sarah Waddington from Wadds Inc, and I've been working in PR for more than 20 years. In this podcast, you'll hear from leaders and senior communicators about their leadership journey and how they create social impact. You'll also understand the areas you should be focusing on to build personal and organizational resilience, find out how public relations can unlock value for your business, and you'll enjoy a great listen along the way.
Today I have the pleasure of welcoming Tokunbo Ajasa-Oluwa, who is the CEO of National Social Mobility Charity, Career Ready. Welcome to the show to Tokunbo.
Tokunbo Ajasa-Oluwa:
Thanks, Sarah. Pleasure to be here.
Sarah Waddington:
Better business outcomes, as you know, is all about good leadership. Let's start with the big question - what for you makes a good leader, who do you look up to?
Tokunbo Ajasa-Oluwa:
Hmm. What makes a good leader? I think a good leader is someone that can inspire people, trust people and be vulnerable around their team.
So those three qualities for me is, is what I kind of look for in great leadership.
And in regards to individuals that have inspired my personal journey I had the pleasure of, of meeting her once - Dame Anita Roddick from Body Shop.
Sarah Waddington:
Big name.
Tokunbo Ajasa-Oluwa:
Yeah. I remember, it was funny. I reached out to her when I was setting up my first social enterprise, probably about 20 years ago now. And she was gracious enough to give me some time. And we were just talking about leadership and inspirations and social purpose and how that intertwines with business, etc. And I just loved her philosophy and it was all built around passion, purpose and making positive change. So she very much stood out to me as someone who had a leadership style that I've taken a lot from.
Sarah Waddington:
That's quite a name drop. And I love also what you said about good leaders having vulnerability, and I think that's one of the things that Anita also embodied. You know, she's one of those names that, you know, everybody knew who she was and you know, still a big miss in terms of you know, her leadership style, but lots of people look up to her.
I mentioned career Ready in, in the intro, and you connect young people with workplace support and opportunities. Tell us about your overarching mission and what it means in practice.
Tokunbo Ajasa-Oluwa:
Yeah, so basically what Career Ready is about is the premise that talent doesn't have a particular postcode. So that's our hypothesis, and we aim to prove that, you know, and, and how we prove that is by working in areas across the UK that has highest level of deprivation.
Working with young people that are facing multiple social economic barriers. But providing them with that bridge, you know, and that bridge is really focused on their potential. So we provide a bridge that enables them to make better informed decisions. So when it comes to their career choices, bridges that enable them to connect with professionals where they can increase their social capital and ultimately you know, tap into their potential and live a lifestyle and life choices that they never thought someone like them from their background could do. And how that practically works is working with young people age fifteens 16 upwards, and provide them with a program that includes a paid internship access to a mentor and multiple master classes that are delivered by volunteers from our employer partners. So that in a nutshell is, is what we do at Career Ready.
Sarah Waddington:
Fantastic. And so important, I mean you’ll have seen yourself recently, the Social Mobility Foundation published research which showed that people with jobs from working class backgrounds compared to their peers are earning around 7,000 pounds less than, than their, than their colleagues. And so, you know, apart from widening access to starting with placements and then careers. Obviously there's ongoing work to do. So it's fantastic that you're in this space and, and starting as early as possible. And we'll come back to that actually later.
You're a leading voice on social mobility in part because of your own lived experience mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. would you mind sharing what your background was like and how it's contributed to the work you do today?
Tokunbo Ajasa-Oluwa:
Yeah, yeah. I, I grew up in the east end of London and I, I literally have the profile of, of a young person that would fit onto the Career Ready program. So I grew up in a single parent family council housing narrative. Went to one of the worst performing schools in, in the capital. So yeah, the odds, the odds of achievement <laugh> were, were quite slim.
But I was very fortunate and blessed to have a mother and older siblings that were able to inspire me that my future could be a, beyond what I could practically see in my day to day reality. So growing up on free school meals the narrative was tough, you know? And, and that that would have an impact on, on what I thought was possible. My older siblings were the first in our family to go to university, they inspired me to go to university and study journalism, but it wasn't easy. You know, it wasn't an easy experience just from the premise of fitting in.
Sarah Waddington:
No shared experience. Yeah,
Tokunbo Ajasa-Oluwa:
Exactly. So it was very much a kind of tough, groundbreaking experience because my mom came to the UK in the sixties. So I'm first generation British, Nigerian and, and that came with its own challenges as well. So being brought up in a home that had a lot of Nigerian culture, but simultaneously very much being a British East-Ender, you know, it was quite quite a challenging identity journey that I went on.
So all of that has inspired me to do the work that, that I've been doing. And I've had young people and youth empowerment as like a golden thread throughout my career for I'd say at least over 20 years.
Sarah Waddington:
Sounds like you have a hugely supportive family around you and they must be incredibly proud of where you are today.
That's really interesting and I certainly have very different experiences to you, but can very much relate to a difficult time at university for having none of those shared experience also coming from a single parent background. And it's interesting how it forms you as a person and as a leader, and you know, really does make a difference to what you choose to do as a career. Certainly that's, that's what I found, and clearly that's the case with you.
Let's talk about industries and this issue within industries. I can speak for the PR industry, I think it's fair to say, which is the one I'm closest to. There's still not a pipeline of diverse talent, particularly from school leaver age upwards. Now, my husband and I have created a community interest company called Socially Mobile, but that supports people with two years experience onwards. So that's kind of school leaver persona still hasn't been dealt with. What are the big structural issues, would you say, that are holding businesses from all sectors back.
Tokunbo Ajasa-Oluwa:
I think one of the, the structural issues is, well, it's twofold. One is there's a lot of great work that's taking place in silos. And, and that siloed approach is really frustrating because you've got some pioneering leaders who have limited resources, don't have the connectivity to be parachuted into a chief execs office and say, ‘Hey, your, your creative agency or your PA agency should be working with us’. So there, there is a disconnect there. There are fantastic pockets of work taking place across the UK, but it's not aligned.
So sometimes you're finding businesses looking for solutions, but I dunno where to look. So I think it's about that connectivity. We need almost that awareness piece of where is the examples of best practice and how can we connect them together? And it's not, it's not crabs in a barrel mentality where there's only space for one entity. It's really understanding a nuance within the, those profiles of the individuals that they're working with and realizing how they can complement each other. So that's one side of things. It's the awareness piece.
Sarah Waddington:
It's a really great parent that that silo point is a really good, well made one, actually.
Tokunbo Ajasa-Oluwa:
Yeah. Yeah. And, and I think the second point is, is really about there's a difference between talking about the narrative and investing in the narrative.
And I think I'll use two sporting kind of anecdotes that really kind of reinforce the difference, right? So it's the, the World Cup has just started, the men's football World Cup has just started. And, and in 1990 and 1994 France are the current World Cup holders, right? They, they won it in in 2018,
Sarah Waddington:
Remember it Well.
Tokunbo Ajasa-Oluwa:
In 1990, in 1994, they, they, yeah, they, they didn't qualify, right? They didn't qualify. But then in, in 1998, they were hosting the World Cup and they won it. And that was because after the experience of 1990 and 1994, they set themselves some drastic challenges of KPIs, of how they're gonna change their system. And they invested in that change. And the long term response to that was at the next World Cup, which was four years later, they won it! You know, so it was clear about having a strategy, being brave, being bold, thinking differently, and then the reward is you, you become the best team in the world.
And, and it's not just football. When you look at British Olympic team, same kind of thing. In, in 1996 Atlanta 1996 Olympics. Great Britain won only one gold medal, right? It was pathetic. And, and they knew they needed to change that. So 16 years later when we hosted London 2012, we actually won 29 gold medals. And that's the most gold medals GB has, has won in over a hundred years. And again, it was about system change. It was like, this level of performance is not good enough. Let’s change the culture, set some demanding and ambitious targets, and reap the rewards of that. So if industries and businesses wanna do the same thing, they need to invest, it's, it's not enough. Just identifying the challenges and talking about it. We need to see investment
Sarah Waddington:
100%. And I think there's so many great examples from the sporting world. I'm very much hoping that for the next series, I'll be able to speak to someone from the All Blacks. I found them absolutely fascinating. Not just for that ongoing success and their, their leadership lessons, but you know, if you look at them, they're one of the most diverse teams in the world, if not the most diverse rugby team. And I think in terms of a symbol of national pride, they, they're very much that. And I'm keen to delve into that. But again, you know, they, they, they significantly invest in those things, as you just said. And, and you can see the payoff.
Let's go on your time as a cabinet officer appointed social enterprise ambassador. I think that was between 2007 and 10, and you were advising Downing Street on diversity, youth development, and social entrepreneurship. Please be honest, what kind of influence did you actually have? Was the political leadership of the time responsive?
Tokunbo Ajasa-Oluwa:
Oh, well, it was a really challenging time. It was during a recession. So it wasn't the best time.
Sarah Waddington:
Of course, of course 2009 recession, I'd forgotten about.
Tokunbo Ajasa-Oluwa:
Wasn't the best time to, to influence. But I mean, yeah, I, I would say the influence was, there was a team of us. So social enterprise was in its infancy. And I think where we were able to influence in regards to policy around that was around investment in that and being able to change the culture in regards to what serious investment and access to finance looked like for social enterprise as a, as an emerging kind of governance structure. So years later, when I look at it now, you've got kind of organisations that provide social bonds and, you know, significant investment in that space. That's a, that's a great legacy. But one of the more frustrating areas was youth development and, and, and youth kind of empowerment around employment. So we were influencing things like the Future Jobs fund, which was a short term scheme about helping young people that were outside of the job market. But, you know, fast forward, we had something similar this summer that just finished, which was the Kickstarter scheme. And the problem with those things is they just happen - again in silo. They're not connected to the apprenticeship offer. So there were very short term kind of responses to the challenge. And I think the, the frustration that we had is there wasn't the long term thinking in regards to those responses.
Sarah Waddington:
This comes up time and again, the short termism of the thinking and the policy making, when actually this needs a very coherent, long term response, but great to have had the access and no doubt to, to still be able to, to get access if needed.
Tokunbo Ajasa-Oluwa:
Yeah, I mean, it was, you know, it was, it was an interesting time because you know, the kind of work that we do is usually the first things that get ripped out of a budget during a recession. So in that respect I suppose we may have had some impact on that, not being completely ripped out of, of central government budgets for, for work that was trying to make that level of social impact.
Sarah Waddington:
For sure. I'm going to combine a couple of questions here. What can young talent bring to an organisation? Cause I think that's a really important question. And secondly, on the back of that, what we do know if there's research on this, but we've certainly seen this through the community interest company, socially mobile, that those without power won't take it. It's just not within their gift for a multitude of reasons. So what can young talent bring to an organisation, but what can leaders also do to, to hand power over, as it were?
Tokunbo Ajasa-Oluwa:
Yeah, I think what, what this generation Z can bring to employers is a totally different perspective. I mean, they are probably the most socially conscious generation we've had in, in a very long time, you know?
Sarah Waddington:
Yeah. It's wonderful.
Tokunbo Ajasa-Oluwa:
When I'm interviewing young candidates, they're asking me about my D&I policy and, and what does that look like in reality, you know, and that that is something that is very,
Sarah Waddington:
There's challenging questions. They're good, aren't, but it's new. It's new, isn't it?
Tokunbo Ajasa-Oluwa:
Exactly. It's new, it's fresh, they've got a fresh perspective. And also I think you've got to earn their trust and earn their loyalty a lot more. The days of, of an employer staying in an organisation for 20 years are very rare, right? So we we're dealing with quite a, a transient generation. So they, they move here, there, and everywhere, and they're doing a number of things simultaneously. So they may be working for you as an employee, but it's likely that they've got one or two things going on on the side as well. So in that respect, I think we have to appreciate the fact that give them the space to be themselves rather than trying to fit in an archaic culture that might not be fit for now and might not be fit for tomorrow.
Sarah Waddington:
And that worker doesn't have to be the bill. And then I think there's still this thing, this notion, there's all these discussions about the nine to five and hybrid working or homework, and our offers worker, and it all comes down the same thing in terms of it's that that work is the dominant factor in your life. And actually for these people, it's not necessarily the case. It's important to them. They want the reward they have, there's a commercial imperative to it, you know, all, all those things. You not, you know, they, they, they need to earn as much as we do, but actually they recognize, and especially bearing among the economic environment they're in, that they rightly want something more to life that is not just about that transaction of going into an organization, even if you share the, the values, right?
Tokunbo Ajasa-Oluwa:
Absolutely. It's, it's about fulfillment. And that fulfillment doesn't necessarily reflect their compensation package. You know, since Covid, I've had, including within my own team, I've known a number of young adults that have said ‘I'm off’. Whether that's to go traveling with their partner or whether to just try something different. You know, they're, they are very brave. They're a lot braver than than previous generations. So I think for employers, it's understanding that if you are willing to kind of evolve your culture and give them the freedom to be themselves, they can bring a real dynamism to the workplace and to the business and, and the whole perspective of how you move forward.
And then in regards to your second question in regards to what leaders can do, I think a big thing that leaders can do is, is trust their team, right? Yeah. And they need to be providing more opportunities to, for, for young talent to feel empowered, to feel like they're recognized and, and feel they're trusted. Because the reality is that's what's gonna be keeping people engaged. It's the challenge, it's the constant opportunity to develop and grow as professionals, right? So I think that's something that us as leaders should be actively looking for whether that, you know, it doesn't necessarily have to reflect a job title change, but it's just that notion of understanding who that individual is learning about their particular drivers.
Sarah Waddington:
It's workplace design in many respects, isn't it, in terms of shaking up how you think about you do business with your talent and, and evolving and growing alongside the people that are working with you all that at that time. And it does take a fundamental mind shift. It's, you know, it's, it's, and it takes investment. Yeah. And I think probably there is an element of fear attached to that for, for, for management teams. But I think once you unlearn the things that have been rammed into us from day one, <laugh>, it can be a very powerful thing.
Tokunbo Ajasa-Oluwa:
I mean, the last few years have been difficult, but they've also presented us with an opportunity. We don't have to revert back to what was before the pandemic. This is a, this is a really poignant time for us to think about culture and, and it being fit for purpose for this generation that we're working with now.
Sarah Waddington:
Yeah, 100%. Let's just move on to resilience. I'm mindful of time, but resilience particularly after the pandemic, as you've referenced, is more important than ever. Now you are a triathlete, so is that how you manage your mental health? How do you find the time for that?
Tokunbo Ajasa-Oluwa:
<Laugh>? Yeah, I, so, so, so in all honesty, Sarah, I, yeah, like wellbeing is a big factor for me. I mean, I've experienced burnout twice in my career to date. So I'm very conscious about the fact that I need balance in my life and, and physical activity and, and, and mental wellbeing. It, it plays a key role in that. So you're right. Physical activity, whether that's getting on the bike, you know, going for a run.
Sarah Waddington:
But putting it all together <laugh>?
Tokunbo Ajasa-Oluwa:
Yeah, I literally sign up to things that trigger a little fear in me,
Sarah Waddington:
Okay.
Tokunbo Ajasa-Oluwa :
Because there is something about lifelong learning that I really believe in. And that notion of fear, feeling that notion of fear, whether it's swimming in the sea as part of a triathlon or jumping into a boxing ring as part of a white collar bout, or, or riding into Paris. You know, all of these things that I've done are things that are about learning a bit more about me and, and incrementally just tapping into potential that I never knew I had. So I generally try and set myself challenges like that. And physical activity is, is great, particularly when you've got a young family as well. <Laugh>, you need to try and keep, keep energized for them.
Sarah Waddington:
I hear you <laugh>. And then that's not just that. I think it also gives you space outside of that. And you know, I go out and often to get head space as much is away from the family unit. That sounds terrible, but you know what I mean. But often it's when my best thinking's done and I'm often people laugh at me cuz I'll bump into friends and dog walkers around our, our locality and I'll be writing a blog because I, I can run and write at the same time, but it's because I'll be thinking, ah, and I can, within 20 minutes, I've not a latest bit of writing out. And it's so invaluable that space. And sometimes I just use it just to, just to switch off, which is equally as nice and enjoy the environment.
That's fantastic. Thank you Tokunbo. Let's finish with the one thing that you believe leads to better business outcomes.
Tokunbo Ajasa-Oluwa:
I think the one thing that leads to better business outcomes is creating a culture and a space where people can be their authentic self. I think more authenticity leads to greater inclusion, which leads to more brilliance. That's what I believe.
Sarah Waddington:
Amazing. And if people want to check out the work of Career Ready, where can they find more information?
Tokunbo Ajasa-Oluwa:
Yeah we've got our website careerready.org.uk or we’re on the social media platforms, LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram. And yeah, we've been doing this work for just over 20 years and hopefully we'll be here for another 20.
Sarah Waddington:
I hope so. And I really recommend that if you are a business who might be able to supply an internship, please do take a look. There's lots of different ways to get involved actually, but making sure that young people get relevant experience at an early age is, is so crucial. And I know that Career Ready are always looking for, for people who can help. So do check them out.
And that is a perfect wrap to today's Better Business Outcomes podcast. Thanks so much Tokunbo for speaking to me about Career Ready and your own leadership journey. Don't forget to subscribe for free wherever you usually find your podcasts. And if you enjoy what you hear, please also leave us a review and I'll see you next time.